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“Final Fantasy is Dead”: That’s Quite an Ignorant Statement to Make

by on August 4, 2013 1:00 PM 166

On July 27th I reported, not without a fair bit of levity (not everyone in video game journalism feels the need to take himself ultra-seriously all the time), on a Q&A session held in Tokyo where Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII Director Motomu Toriyama and Character Modeling Designer Nobuhiro Goto shared some details about the fact that Lightning had her breasts slightly padded and topped with breast jiggle physics.

The day after, Wired’s Chris Kohler tweeted my article on a trip of holy rage about the alleged defiling of Final Fantasy. As soon as it happened I knew I could expect some kind of hyperbolic headline some time soon. The only point in doubt was just how hyperbolic and out of touch with reality it was going to be.

Unfortunately, the result managed to overtake even my most pessimistic prediction and we were all treated with the following gem: “Final Fantasy Isn’t Dying. It’s Already Dead

That’s quite the interesting statement, and also a dreadfully ignorant one to make. Let’s go ahead and dismantle the whole thing.

Things start badly already with the featured picture, showing off Lightning’s Final Fantasy XIV crossover costume in a typical Miqo’te /pose emote from the upcoming MMORPG, but of course someone that didn’t do his homework wouldn’t know that there’s a very precise reason behind that pose. And yeah, Mr Kohler didn’t bother to do his homework.

FinalFantasyXIVLightningCrossover (2)

Homework aside, the caption is the real problem: “The new face of Final Fantasy. Uh, you are looking at her face, right?”

And there’s where you notice from the very outset of the article that the writer has every intention to be disingenuous. Now one crossover costume, from one game of fourteen numbered titles (almost fifteen), plus I lost count how many sequels and spin-offs has become “The new face of Final Fantasy?”

It’s pretty much like saying that a a single hostess working in an obscure hostess club in Kabukicho is “The new face of Tokyo.” I guess someone that has only experienced Tokyo via the Yakuza games could get near to think something like that, so maybe our valiant writer experienced Final Fantasy only through pin-up pictures?

Yakuza5The new face of Tokyo. Uh, you are looking at her face, right?

From there on, things went downhill, no doubt about that. Kohler proceeds to argue that it’s fine for Leisure Suit Larry to be “95 percent jokes about and/or pictures of breasts” (and it isn’t even near to 95%, but he seems to be very fond of using hyperbole to bolster his points), but  “if in 2013 this is what a Q&A session about Final Fantasy has become, then any claim that the series once had something approaching mainstream respectability done gone and caught the train out of town.”

Putting the horrifying and out of place comparison aside (and I love Leisure Suit Larry as well, but the comparison simply doesn’t fit), that’s not what the Q&A session has become, as the Q&A session was a very extensive romp through a large amount of topics, of which the part about breasts was just a small excerpt. Maybe our resident pundit only bothered to read my light-hearted report about boobs — I guess that’s all he’s interested in — and didn’t check out the rest, which is telling, considering that I went as far as linking it for his convenience.

He also seems not to have a very clear idea on how a Q&A session works: someone asks the questions, and a developer responds, meaning that yeah, someone might easily ask a question about the character’s chest, and there’s nothing strange for a developer to answer said question, even more so considering that it was a very informal Q&A question with fans, and not a formal sit down with the Wall Street Journal.

Ultimately, though, whatever you may think of Toriyama-san and Goto-san otaku-ish outing, they’re just two developers between several tens (or more) on one game that is part of a massive franchise. Saying that the franchise is “dead” (or even dying) because of the words of two people responding to a direct question in a gathering full of other otakus and because of a small change in the chest of one character is as ridiculous, hyperbolic and ignorant as it could be, and it can only be identified as a cheap attention grab.

lightningreturnsoptionsLookie there…options! The series must be dead. Options are obviously bad…

Defining “dead” a franchise that easily sells multiple millions with every main chapter and that has an enormous number of fans around the world is silly at best, disingenuous at worst. Let’s not even mention the fact that basing the judgement of Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII on a marginal element like breast jiggle (like it was the first game to introduce it) and a slightly larger chest is unworthy of the position of a game journalist.

Almost every preview of the game is positive, including the recent slew that came from Japan out of the event where the whole hoopla happened. Chances are that the game is actually going to be good, but Kohler prefers to call it “dead”, because of Lightning’s breasts. Of course the actual gameplay, the story, the writing and everything else don’t matter, right? All that matters to our angry pundit are Lightning’s mammaries.

It reminds me of a few misguided reviews of Dragon’s Crown I’ve seen around the web a few days ago, where the writers knocked multiple points off the score because they didn’t agree with the showcase of breasts that was incidentally part of the art style, basically translating as “The game plays great. It’s a lot of fun, but I’m gonna tell you that it’s bad, because boobs.” That’s honestly pathetic.

Kohler goes on to complain that once upon a time Final Fantasy was all serious business (with some “moments of levity”) with epic stories and “strong, relatable characters”  and could “attempt to tackle subtle, complex themes on platforms that were largely dominated by paper-thin plots and cartoon characters.”

LightningStrongShe seems pretty strong to me…

Maybe he should realize that the story and dialogue of the game aren’t written by Toriyama-san or Goto-san. There’s absolutely no reason to believe (and no hint of it in the demos that have been shown so far) that Lightning has somehow become some kind of lascivious sex doll, and from the dialogue we’ve seen she’s as badass as ever and even more mature than before. Let’s not even mention the fact that the Lightning Saga has tackled plenty “subtle, complex themes”, but most possibly Kohler isn’t in the position to know.

It seems that he believes that having average-sized breasts (a Japanese D cup is not in any way a pair of giant, dangling globes, as it pretty much translates to a North American C) that actually aren’t made of hardwood somehow conflicts with being a “strong, relatable character”. Of course that’s not the case. Being strong or relatable is not in any way proportional (or inversely so) to the size of a woman’s boobies.

The misguided article continues by mentioning that once upon a time “the ideas of orchestras playing the games’ amazing musical scores or of art galleries displaying the design work of Yoshitaka Amano were not out of the question.” Either Kohler’s idea of the past tense is as elastic as time in Final Fantasy XIII-2, or maybe he just didn’t do his homework (yes, it seems to be a recurring theme in his article). I can only advise for him to go check the very much present schedule of the Distant Worlds concerts and educate himself.

Amano_codI find quite funny that Kohler and others notice the existence of a degree of titillation in Final Fantasy titles just now. Maybe they didn’t get the memo about Tifa’s very sizable chest, and her breast-pushing victory pose from Final Fantasy VII, enhanced as recent as 2011 with plenty jiggle physics in Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy​. Shall we talk about Final Fantasy III‘s Cloud of Darkness that prances around almost completely naked in Yoshitaka Amano’s own artwork (and Kohler seems to think very highly and with a degree of nostalgia of Amano-sensei’s artwork)

KainRosaCecil_AmanoMaybe some forget that the strong and lovely Celes from Final Fantasy VI worn just a form fitting leotard, while Final Fantasy IV‘s Rosa sported a very similar outfit in the game and skimped down to a bikini in Amano’s character artwork.

So when Amano-sensei drew his heroines and villains in alluring and sexy attire, not to mention quite sensual poses, it was perfectly OK, but now that the designers of Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII do the same (giving the player plenty options to cover Lightning up to their leisure, mind you) it’s not OK anymore. That sounds like a double standard, or maybe simply ignorant, due to memories clouded by nostalgia and lack of attention to detail.

Of course, those are just a few examples of blatant showcases of sensuality on Final Fantasy games of old, and there are plenty more, all it takes to remember them is clearing one’s mind from nostalgia and bias, but that seems an ability that many of today’s video game journalists have to leave out of their resumes.

Of course, the Final Fantasy franchise isn’t the only one that pushes the sexy button here and there. I wonder where Kohler and his fellow pundits were, for instance, when CD Projekt turned seducing women into a nude collectible card game with The Witcher. I’m quite glad that most of the pundits ignored it, as The Witcher is one of the best RPG series out there, and I wouldn’t wish for any developer to have to face this kind of harassment.

Mind you, The Witcher’s Geralt has been redesigned twice in the series. His whole facial structure has been completely reworked between the first two games, but that kind of radical change seems to be perfectly OK, while a slight change to Lightning’s breast size and a few completely optional costumes seem to trigger journalists into irrational rage fits.

GeraltDon’t worry Geralt, you’re clear. They din’t notice you…

But let’s cut down the chase and get right down to business, shall we? The Final Fantasy series is far from dead. As a matter of fact you could say that it has never been more alive, with three mainline titles currently in development (Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn and Final Fantasy XV).

Kohler clumsily tries to minimize the importance of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn by comparing it to the flop of its predecessor, and by writing “and once the new version comes out, even if it’s good, it’s still going to be an MMO with a monthly fee in an era dominated by the free-to-play model”.

So now doing something differently from the masses has become automatically bad? Kohler forgets that there are a lot of dedicated MMORPG players that actually enjoy just being able to insert their credit cart number into their account and then just play their favorite game without worrying about being nickel and dimed at every corner, or having to buy boosters and similar stuff from the local e-supermarket all the time in order to stay competitive and have fun.

FFXIV_ARR_Intro_LimsaLominsa (99)FFXIV has some rather skimpy outfits, and a breast slider; and they jiggle. Is it “dead” too? 

Exactly because there aren’t many pay to play MMORPGs around, Square Enix is offering a quite rare commodity, and if anything that increases its chances of success. That’s especially true considering the fact that the franchise has a very dedicated fanbase since…you know…the series is far from dead.

Again, doing one’s homework more diligently before writing would help a lot here: Final Fantasy XI is pay to play, still has a large playerbase after eleven years and is the most profitable title of the franchise. Quite obviously many Final Fantasy fans don’t mind paying a monthly fee to play a quality MMORPG.

Speaking about quality, the game has been showing quality in spades during the beta (voiding the misguided comparison with the original Final Fantasy XIV, that was a completely different game). Most previews are enthusiastic (including mine, and even MMORPG newbies like Allisa had a lot of fun) and even just following the game’s hashtags on twitter shows how fans are on hot coals to get to play the game. Not too bad for a MMORPG belonging to a dead franchise, isn’t it? Of course, I don’t expect Kohler to know anything about it.

What about Final Fantasy XV? We didn’t see much yet about the game, but what we saw was downright spectacular. It also dropped many jaws at E3, proving one of the high points of the Sony conference. Check out the reaction of the crowd in the video below starting at the 3:30 mark:

That seems quite enthusiastic for a franchise that’s allegedly “dead”, isn’t it? Of course that’s because it’s not dead at all. Not even close.

Of course, there’s also the remake of Final Fantasy X and X-2 incoming, and I’m quite sure that many are eager to replay those classics with updated graphics, but I think we have plenty evidence of the series’ vitality just by considering the new games and without having to resort to remakes.

Final Fantasy has millions of fans all over the world. Denying it is completely disingenuous and blind to reality. Dead series aren’t nearly as popular and don’t have three different new games in development, two of which near to their release.

FFXV_StellaYou better make sure you’re dressed properly missy. Or else…

Going as far as telling that a whole franchise is dead because of a slight increase of a character’s bra size and the fact that her breasts won’t be made of solid steel anymore, not to mention a few completely optional costumes is utterly ridiculous, but of course making completely ludicrous statements is a pretty effective way to get people to click on that headline. Some don’t seem to care if those statements are also dreadfully ignorant and fly straight in the face of any idea of journalistic integrity.

I remember reading “Final Fantasy is Dead!” tens of times through my “career” as a gamer and then as a writer. The first time was with V, I believe, and then with every single chapter of the series, including the widely adored VII, that managed to offend quite a few because of the radical departure from the fantasy themes. Guess what? Final Fantasy is still there despite its haters.

People are free to judge the attitude of two developers the way they want, but it’s doubtless that Final Fantasy‘s “vitality” doesn’t even get near to be compromised by something as small. The series is alive and well, in spite of those that would wish it dead or that believe it dead simply because it doesn’t pander to their very personal taste or agenda.

Final Fantasy is far from dead. What actually died is the ability of some to look at it objectively.

Join the Discussion

  • foureyes oni

    hmm i would say maybe dying would fit the mold if your into the older ff titles. i’m going to buy ff15 but this is the last one i buy based off nostalgia of 6-10. If its no good which i’m thinking it will be then i’m done with buying anymore Final fantasy games. I don’t think its dead since we have a new bunch of folks who like the current style of FF games.

    • Giuseppe Nelva

      Fair enough. Not catering to one’s particular taste doesn’t make a series dead.

      Yet, there’s really no reason to believe XIV will be bad from what we saw so far. Actually even LR:FFXIII looks very good from what was shown and from the demo, and I’m not talking about graphics. The gameplay is interesting to say the least.

      I don’t even need to talk about XIV, because that’s an extremely solid title, and we already experienced a good chunk on it to be fairly confident about its quality.

      It’s not even dying. A dying series doesn’t have three major games (plus a major remake) in production and millions of fans all over the world.

      • Carlo

        FF will never die IMO they’re going in the right direction lately IMO. I’m still on the fence on LR as good as it is I’m just afraid its not going to be long enough for it to justify a 60$ buy although I have only a vague idea of how long it will last maybe a personal estimate it being a sequel to a sequel isn’t giving me high hopes.

        ARR is a solid title. More than a million beta players then count the people who bought but didn’t get in beta. Though not all beta players will play at launch the numbers are pretty good for a game that will “flop” :)

        • foureyes oni

          the game is free right now i’m expecting that number to drop by a lot when the game comes out. And considering sony has been telling us they’ve sold 70 something million consoles yet only a little over a million is playing this game for free is just weird.

          • Giuseppe Nelva

            The game is “free”, but the beta is a closed one. Only those that have been invited or got a code could play.

          • foureyes oni

            true, but its still free. i think its a great thing that square did offering all those beta codes since a lot of folks tried it just cause it said free like my coworker did. Now i know that my coworker though will not buy this game even though he thought it looked and played great.

          • Giuseppe Nelva

            Your coworker doesn’t make much of a statistic mate :D

          • foureyes oni

            i agree i was just giving an example of what i think is gonna happen.

      • foureyes oni

        I’m still making my mind up on 14 i’ve only played a little of the beta. and the new 13 game i’ve really only seen a few picts of it since my interest for it is almost completely dead. i just feel like the love/fandom that folks had for the older games won’t really be felt for 13 and up (i want to say 12 and up but i know too many people that love that game).

    • Peristarkawan

      Based on the E3 trailer I’m now looking forward to XV more than I have for any other FF game in recent history. I think I may even enjoy it — but not for the reasons that I’m accustomed to enjoying FF. I suppose that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

      • foureyes oni

        lol i’m the opposite i’m dreading XV more than i have wait ff10-2 was pretty close but still i’m so on the fence with this one. The gameplay does look amazing.

    • Nicholas Perry

      There’s your problem. Nostalgia infused bias.

      Amano’s Artwork and characters were blatantly feminine, and very sexual. But because people are blinded by nostalgia, they claim “Oh it’s art, it’s not sexual! Oh it’s not feminine it’s art!”

      Every male character had pale skin, and sported lipstick. Yet you blind yourselves to this and come up with an excuse to justify being OK with that because of Nostalgia.

      • foureyes oni

        yeah no offense but nostalgia is not the reason why i considered Amano’s work to be more art than something sexual. I was a teenager when 7 came out and checking out amano’s artwork. Believe me if i was looking at it as something sexual then i would remember doing so with some Nostalgia.

  • Carlo

    In regards to the ARR comment made by Kohler it does seem a bit ignorant and shows that he is not even in any way been involved in the community of ARR. Its going to flop because its P2P? Let me say this to you Mr. Kohler, majority of the community wouldn’t have it otherwise. The game has been completely reborn so to speak although there are a few mechanics people want to change or could be improved down the line given the 2 years that the team had. I and most players have nothing but respect for the dev team.

    In regards to the FF is dead because of jiggly boobs. I will be completely honest and admit that FF7 drew me in because of 1. Its innovation at the time and 2. Tifa’s chest ;p. Giving players option is never a bad idea. You don’t want it don’t use it. Whats wrong with giving people some choices?

    But 1 thing I do have to say though the FF series is defined by the company (SE) so whatever they say is FF is FF. Stray as much from the originals as long as they say its FF its FF. But IMHO their lack of ability to listen to constructive fan feedback is one factor that are turning off some fans. The new casual gamers will buy your games and give it a try but long time hard core fans need to be taken care of too and next is their “westernizing” of their JRPGS. People get JRPGS because thats what they want, Japanese styled RPG’s. And lastly the over arching, too complex and things like the open end of 13-2 isn’t something thats going to work. People get FF because of its simplicity yet complexity at the same time. I can’t really put it into words but I’m just glad that FF15 seems to be getting it right. Crystals > Bad guys > Get bad guys. FF14 is centered around crystals too. nice throw back to the older games.

    Just a few more speed bumps Square. You have it in you just listen a bit and don’t try too hard your games will sell. You have a fan here who will always do o/

    • Giuseppe Nelva

      Actually I think the flop of the original Final Fantasy XIV has been extremely beneficial to Square Enix. It forced them to start opening their ears and listen ing.It brought some change that was really needed at the company.

      Would have you ever imagined, just three years ago, Square Enix having an official forum with developers actually responding and talking to people? That would have been completely unthinkable.

      • Carlo

        Completely agree. A blessing in disguise too bad for the company them losing so much money but I’m not a shareholder so good news for gamers like me. Yoshi-p started the trend I just hope others emulate it once they see the success of ARR. You cannot discount its success is also in part due to feedback which they listened to.

        • Giuseppe Nelva

          Yep, it’s their money to lose :D If as a result we get something good, so be it :D

      • Daniel Ortiz Nieto

        I will still wonder how XIV could have been if Tanaka could have realized his vision and executed his ideas in a well, functional way and created a working game.

        And I loved XIV from the first day I joined in the original edition beta.

        • foureyes oni

          yeah i kinda actually liked the game as well when it first came out i didn’t realize it was a bad game until i started reading about it online. But then again the only other mmo i had ever played at the time was shaiya. Now i’ve played a lot more mmo’s and see it was lacking a lot of things when it came out.

  • Jack

    final fantasy is selling million i don’t understand how it’s dead

    please don’t say the game suck because that subjective

    • Nihelus Aurenis

      I’ve been reading your comments for a while now. I honestly can’t tell if your grammar is intentionally bad or not, which bothers me for some reason.

      • Jack

        i sees no probleme with my Gramar

        u mad?

  • Peristarkawan

    Regarding the aside about Dragon’s Crown, I have to say that from the screenshots I’ve seen, the over-the-top female character art is a total deal-breaker for me. I don’t even care what the game play might be like, because I know that I wouldn’t be able to enjoy it. So it’s entirely fitting and not at all “misguided” that this element should enter consideration when reviewing the game for a general audience. Art and graphics are typically an important element of a game review — why should this stop short of judging tastefulness?

    • Giuseppe Nelva

      The quality of the art and graphics is important to a review, not your extremely personal and biased feelings about them.

      An art style can not fit your taste, but still be extremely high quality, and that’s exactly the case with dragon’s crown. So yeah, those reviews are entirely misguided and misleading.

      • Nicholas Perry

        Dragon’s Crown art is badass. I love the Amazon, you know she could kick anyone’s ass any day of the week. /total subjective bias

    • foureyes oni

      i just thought the art looked weird, goofy, yet intriguing at the same time. its like folks who hates a game cause its looks are anime inspired.

  • Sad4FF

    Oh, but it is dying. I understand you write this article because flame wars bring sweet sweet readers to your web, but the article is so full of it I had de answer. It’s not that later entries didn’t cause stir upon de fan base. I remember people crying out loud when they say FFX would bring voices, or the super deformed look in FFIX after the more serious XVIII, but in the end the mayor part of the community accepted them as great classic of the videogame, because their virtues overpasses whatever cringe-ish thing you may notice by far.

    But it is different with this FF13-Saga. In just 2 entries Squenix has managed to convert Final Fantasy in a niche series. You know what I mean, these game only people very into that genre can aprecciate. Older Final Fantasy games appeal to a broad audience. There would people who’d play FIFA or Halo, but they also played Final Fantasy, because they were great games, wich surpased the genres boundaries. And now, take a look into Final Fantasy XIII-2. Those costumes, that crappy battle system, that nonsense story. The have converted the saga in a really deep niche game. The name is a powerfull reclaimer still, but if it goes down that road much longer, it would be a new Sonic. I really like JRPGs, I love them, and japanese games in general, but I don’t want Final Fantasy to become an Atelier Totori.

    And just in case you are wondering, I’ve played FFXIII and FFXIII-2. And sorry for the typos, i hate my smartphone keyboard.

    • Giuseppe Nelva

      Actually you have it the wrong way. It’s not that earlier Final Fantasy games appealed to a broader audience. They didn’t. They actually were a lot more niche than they are now in their contents.

      It was the niche of people that were interested in that kind of game that was bigger at the time.

      The Lightning Saga is currently one of the most popular in Japan, because there the niche that likes the kind of game that is Final Fantasy didn’t shrink much, while in the west it did.

      A series with millions of fans and millions of copies sold for every mainline chapter isn’t dead or dying, sorry to burst a bubble there :D

      It has nothing to do with flame wars. It’s simply to restore a bit of fairness among the ignorance.

      • foureyes oni

        you lost me i think?

        • Giuseppe Nelva

          Simply enough, it’s not that Final Fantsy has become a niche game. It’s the niche that’s interested in this kind of game that has become smaller. Older Final Fantasy games were plenty niche.

          • foureyes oni

            hmm i had no idea i was a niche when i bought the older titles lol. but yeah i can kinda see what both sides are saying. It seems to me that square is aiming more for the western and casual crowd with the new ff13 games leaving their niche status behind. While even when they were a niche in the past they were hugely popular simply because these games were awesome. 13 is just so divisive compared to the older titles.

          • Giuseppe Nelva

            That’s actually the opposite. as the Lightning Saga is most popular in Japan, where lightning is one of the most popular final fantasy characters of all times.

            Past Final Fantasy games were less divisive because most gamers were a lot more forgiving back then. and now nostalgia plays an immense role in the comparison.

          • foureyes oni

            i knew you was gonna mention the popular in Japan. I don’t know about the forgiving part for me FF7 was the first ff/rpg i ever played so i would think that if it wasn’t any good i would have dropped it fairly quickly since i had plenty of other games to play. 13 was just painful i only finished it cause it was a main ff title. i kept thinking its gonna get better its gonna get better and then i arrived at the credits.

          • Giuseppe Nelva

            If you finish a game “Only because it’s a main FF title” it’s your loss mate. I finish games I have fun with regardless of title. Those I don’t, I set aside.

            FFVII was a great title for its time, but it had tons of flaws, flaws that now people don’t remember, because at that time they were acceptable.

            The funny part? it has pretty much the same “flaw” (which isn’t a flaw really) the pundit that wrote that FF is “dead” blames Lightning Returns on.

            This is besides the point though. Whether you like the later chapters of the series or not, there’s millions of people that do, hence, the series is far from dead. This is undeniable.

            Calling “dead” what one personally doesn’t like is a common but rather silly mistake.

          • foureyes oni

            but its not just one person or this whole comment section would be a lot quieter. and yeah i do set aside a lot of games. i’m not going to say ff is dead cause there a lot of folks who like the new direction that square is going love ff13 and a lots of folks who don’t. Heres the deal on 7 i still play 7 as well as 8,9,and 10 i have no problem playing them with the flaws you mentioned because i love the world, the music, the story, and some times just the atmosphere of the game(i only played 6 on emulator). just because it sold millions of games doesn’t mean everyone likes the new chapter all that much. just like a lot of other square fans i bought ff13-2 when it came out even though i didn’t like 13. thats why for me ff15 will be the last game i buy new from square off of the nostalgia i have of 6-10 cause right now they just aren’t getting the games right. 15 is their last chance and if they fail square is pretty much dead to me. now if they say ff7 hd thats whole different story.

          • Giuseppe Nelva

            One person or a million, that’s still not a “majority” mate.

            The series doesn’t need to be liked by “everyone” to be alive and well. It has a very large fanbase (including the new chapters), which makes it plenty lively.

            Those that don’t like it aren’t held at gunpoint to play it. There are plenty games to play out there. The millions that like it will enjoy it plenty without the need for universal acclaim, that almost no game (make it no game actually) gets.

          • foureyes oni

            your 1 million that don’t like it would be a third of the of the people who may have bought ff13-2 its only shipped 3.1 million copies. yeah i know i’m guilty of looking at wiki to find the answers oh well. and your acting like this is the only game that folks have not been liking from square ff10-2 , 14 when it released, 12 is pretty much a niche final fantasy game, and the 13 series. i didn’t say it was dead i said it was dying and if ff15 is what i’m expecting it to be then square will be dead to me.

          • Giuseppe Nelva

            And? still isn’t a majority. Still doesn’t make it dead, which is the whole point here.

            “folks” have not been liking what? What folks? “folks” is a massive genralization.

            It’s not dead, nor dying. A series that has millions of fans and three AAA games in development can’t be defined either one or the other. Doing so is disingenuous and massively detached from reality.

            You continue missing the fact that you not liking something doesn’t make it bad, or dead, or dying.

            I disliked FFV, massively. I found it boring as hell, Yet I sure wasn’t between those that screamed bloody murder and called the series dead (and there were many, just as there were many calling it dead when FFVII dared to move away from almost pure fantasy). I just moved on, and played something else until the series went back to fit my taste again.

            By the way. Everything is “niche”. There’s no game out there that is for everyone. May just want to come to terms with the fact that you just aren’t part of this particular niche.

          • foureyes oni

            read the other comments in this article for the folks part who don’t like a lot of the other ff titles from after 10. that million is still a third of the folks who may not buy it which is a huge chunk of people and this is the third installment of the 13 series which will see even less people buying it. Unless the whole boob and outfit thing changes folks minds. i simply think the love and nostalgia that folks have for square’s ff series will simply dwindle away decreasing the amount of sales for FF titles. Me and a ton of other people weren’t a part of the 12 niche since the game seems to be rarely talked about in a lot of the ff forum posts. It was an alright game though i enjoyed it for the most part. But who knows maybe 15 will bring in a lot of the old and new fans together.

          • foureyes oni

            i’ve got to admit the more i argue with you about this game the more i come to hate the game when i didn’t even hate the game that much to begin with. It simply just did not suit my taste.

      • Nicholas Perry

        People don’t remember in the early 90′s when Final Fantasy was incredibly Niche in the US. It wasn’t until FFVI and VII that it gained “mainstream popularity”

  • islan

    That is a pretty stupid thing to say. Final Fantasy [creatively] died way back when FFX-2 was released.

    Though FF14 certainly makes it look like it might rise from the grave…

    • Nicholas Perry

      WHICH IS HILARIOUS, considering FFX-2 was made by Squaresoft(And published by them in Japan before they became Square Enix) and it’s almost entirely Non-linear.(Which people seem to think the whole series was by the time XIII came around. Not true. This is a fact. Not an opinion)

      • islan

        Every Final Fantasy game I’ve ever played has been linear, but you could still explore in them to some extent and tended to have good level designs. FF13 appears to think of level design as nothing more than pretty backgrounds to the hallway you are walking on.

        • Mildra

          Assuming that the game had your arbitrary degree of exploration, how would it benefit the narrative as opposed to what they actually used? (in other words, what makes that idea of exploration so special on its own)

          • islan

            Don’t get me wrong; my statement was not meant to be saying that “FF13 sucks because it is so linear”, I was merely responding to Nicholas Perry in regards to the difference between linearity and exploration and their roles within the various Final Fantasy games. My point was the linearity has little to do with whether or not a game is good. For instance, if the narrative and combat mechanics are fun enough, the linearity should barely even be noticeable. Past FF games barely even had that much exploration anyway, but it was there and it did add another type of enjoyment beyond the narrative and combat mechanics.

  • MyBodyIsReady

    Meh, maybe other people are still enjoying it but I’ve completely lost all faith in it. FF15 looks rather uninteresting, looks like remember me with a final fantasy skin. Don’t even get me started on Lightning returns.
    They used to be the kings of the JRPG but these days you can find much much better, mature, original and interesting RPG’s from Atlus and From Software. FF isn’t dead, but it’s still a shell of it’s former self. A horrible, confused cash-in shell.

    • Giuseppe Nelva

      The “King of JRPG” has always been a very subjective statement to make.

      They may have been the “King of JRPG” for you (for me there have always been plenty other great JRPG series, and I never had a clear preference between, for instance, Final Fantasy and Persona), and for some they still are.

      The only objective way to look at who the “king of JRPG” is is sales. In which case they’re still the kings, actually. Of course sales aren’t a very big factor to enjoyment, but there isn’t another objective factor to look at.

      • Alexander Conrad

        Legend of the Seven Stars is king

      • sgr

        Yeah, but that friend that everybody of us have, who only plays FIFA and Gears of War knows Final Fantasy, but do have any idea about what Persona is. But this is going to change if they continue to make that games that only appeal to hardcore jrpg gamers.

        • Giuseppe Nelva

          I’d rather them continue that way. They make a profit, and that’s enough.

          Who’s “king” is inconsequential, as long as the games are good.

          • sgr

            But the games are arguably good. I personally think they are awfull. And nobody can say they are great. And they used to be, hands down, Extraordinary.
            And that’s the drama.

          • Giuseppe Nelva

            You used the right keyword at the beginning, then you went downhill.

            You had it right at “personally”, then you lost it. And sure people can say they’re “great”. It’s subjective, and there are a ton of em that say just that (The Lightning Saga is one of the most popular in Japan, which is why they made two sequels). Just like you think they’re “awful”.

          • sgr

            I understand it a matter of tastes. But it is so hard to admit that a game can be great when you can win 90% of battles just mashing “auto”. And I’ve played both, so I know what I am talking. And that is just one of many problems. Take out the girl in the miniskirt and let’s see who is interested.
            And let be noted that I am interested in the Lighting Returns, but no as a Final Fantasy, but as a regular-non-especial action game.

          • CecilsDarkSide

            Can u not win many a battle with auto in Persona? I think you can.

          • sgr

            LOL that sounded so desperated. Of course you can, but only when you are zillions of levels above the enemies, as happens in every game based on levels since the universe was made. See, this is what I am talking, you can say it a matter of perspective, but you can not objetibly compare the depth of Persona 4 (Fusing personas, choosing atacks, arcana, all in attacks, mana and hp moves, social links, etc) with the auto mashing from the beggining of XIII.

          • Nicholas Perry

            Except, NO. You won’t win FFXIII by simply doing auto. And you certainly wont’ get 100% completion or be able to complete many of the side quests/missions.

            BUT WAIT. IN Final FANTASY TACTICS. I COULD BEAT THE WHOLE GAME ON AUTO. Does that mean it’s bad and everyone complains about that ONE little thing and that it makes the game “Bad”?

            ABSOLUTELY NOT.

          • Nicholas Perry

            Just because you don’t like them. =/= they are bad.

            I dont’ like Gears of War, doesn’t mean it’s bad.

            I loathe Bioware RPGs like KOTR,Mass Effect or Dragon Age. It doesn’t mean they are bad games. Quite the contrary they are good games.

      • Kamille

        The only good Persona games are 3 and 4 anyway, that’s why they were so niche before, because the first 2 games are not that good. They are just bad games with good art and interesting concept that was never realized. So yeah, the latest Persona offerings have been much better than recent FF games but don’t even dare to compare them to FF 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10. Those games are the pinnacle of the genre.

        Not everybody agrees on Obama as president but that’s how it is. FF used to be the king. Period.

        • foureyes oni

          i’ve got to say i still haven’t played 3 and 4 even though i own them. its always on my to do list.

        • Giuseppe Nelva

          People can dare to compare whatever they like. You’re stating your very personal opinion like it’s fact, which it isn’t :D

          • ProbablyNotButHey

            Considering that your entire article is also your opinion, and equally argumentative, isn’t that a little hypocritical?

        • Rogerrmark

          Didnt read,lolololol

          Persona 1,P2 IS/EP are on the same vein from most Megaten(that rocks). So yeah,your taste sucks,sorry.

  • Daniel Ortiz Nieto

    As long as any product provokes controversy, t’s far from dead.

    I know I will be enjoying my final fantasy games for years to come.

    • Kamille

      he meant dead as in quality compared to the old games not dead in sales and popularity. FF will never die in those respects because the franchise has a huge following of obnoxious fans in denial. And not to mention that when it comes to JRPGs the only game the masses know about it’s FF.

      • Giuseppe Nelva

        And he was wrong and biased, as objective quality of many of the games has actually raised, and not by a little.

        The earlier final fantasy games were very rough in many of their aspects, but to us they seemed fantastic because we were a lot less demanding.

        Maybe it’s not the fans that are “obnoxious and in denial”, but the haters, as all they have to do is move on.

        Nostalgia is a very misleading parameter to judge games on, and Kohler’s article demonstrates it, considering all the facts he gets wrong, showing that even his memories are completely clouded.

        • Nicholas Perry

          Exactly. Final Fantasy XIII told a story of a million shades of grey. There was no big bad black and white conflict making the characters do what they do. They simply wanted to survive and escape the fate that the hand of cards that had been dealt to them.

      • Daniel Ortiz Nieto

        See my long post in this same section, FF has never had so much quality as now.

        The old FF’s are just simple stories with a simple twist and an evil bad guy, from FFX and on, and well, Matsuno aside with Tactis and Ivalice, pushed forward the story telling and the characters.

        People don’t like the new entries, that’s ok, but a good old replay of the classics would bring light that FF quality is on it’s peak now, it’s just that new generations are too fond on nostalgia to actually appreciate that now.

        And that’s a problem because it’s the appreciation of the fanbase that sells games, not the real quality, and as long as people still thinks FFVII or VI or VIII or IV or X is the second coming of jesus regardless of their actual quality, Square will be attacked with harsh criticism with unhappy and displeased fans that ask fro something new, then get it, then ask fro that told nostalgia feel.

        I’m happy for the new direction Square is taking and I’m really looking forward to play their new worlds, with an open mind and will to have fun.

  • Kamille

    the last really good FF game was FFX, so to me it’s dead. FFX-2… Don’t even want to talk about it. FF12 was going in the right direction except for the boring as heck story centered on politics and forced irrelevant characters like Vaan and Penelo. Crisis Core was just an over the top mess based on FF7 that only DBZ fans and new comer weaboos would be able to enjoy. FF13 as whole is absolute garbage and a butcher of the franchise. FF14 is just a cash grab hanging to an outdated model. Monthly fees to play a game when there are much better alternatives outthere is what idiots do.

    FF to me is dead and this was my favorite franchise.

    • Giuseppe Nelva

      Again, Subjective. A franchise not catering to your personal taste can’t be defined dead. It’s simply something you don’t like or don’t care for.

      • ProbablyNotButHey

        and if the majority doesn’t like/care for it, it dies out.

        • Giuseppe Nelva

          And who talks for “The majority?” Pretty much for sure not Kohler, since the series regularly sells in the multiple millions.

          Can try to deny it as much as he can, but there’s no denying it.

          An angry pundit on a website making factually false allegation represents no “majority”.

          • islan

            “An angry pundit on a website making factually false allegation represents no “majority”. ”

            The same can be said of those who think Final Fantasy is still a hallmark of quality narrative and get upset at those who decry its downfall.

          • Giuseppe Nelva

            Calling someone on an ignorant statement has nothing to do with being “upset”.

            THose that appreciate Final Fantasy sure represent millions of people that continue to buy and appreciate the series.

        • Nicholas Perry

          Which is a problem with the fanbase. Because as we know, Final Fantasy has one of the most divided and vitriol spitting fanbases in existence. And it’s been this way since the 90′s.

    • foureyes oni

      just wondering what are your alternative games?

    • Daniel Ortiz Nieto

      Maybe you’ve grown and you don’t like the same things you liked in your youth?

      You DO like the things you liked a while ago because the nostalgia you feel while remembering/replaying them, but maybe you no longer like new things that are LIKE those ones, because you get to experience those NOW and not back them.

      Square games keep the same formulas since the first final fantasy, they evolve and explore new gameplay mechanics and art styles, but the core is exactly the same. I’ve replayed all FF’s from 1 to 13-2 + Chrono Trigger and Xenogears the last months, and all the games are exactly just pressing X, the strategy is the same (executed at a faster or slower pace), and from FFIV on, just linear paths to advance the story, but without a map they looked much more confusing.

      FF is not dead, just your tastes (and those of many others) just changed because we don’t have the same age we had when we experienced the first games in the franchise.

      Oh, and video games have been sexualized since, well, forever.

      I dare any poster to find a FF with a more intricate and serious plot n a FF game than the FF13 saga (13 and 13-2 so far). Pro tip: You can’t.

    • foureyes oni

      i agree with almost everything except for FF14 but i think thats just me hoping that they turned the game completely around.

  • WEL

    I’m interested on FF15 though even though I hate the current state of the franchise. But not because of nostalgia or because it looks cool on trailers, because FF13 had cool trailers too but look at the turd it turned out to be. I’m sold on FF15 because of the promise of a world-map, side-quests, airships, towns, switchable characters during combat, etc. I’m expecting scale like FF12 and the old games prior FF10 compared to the corridors of death in FF13 or the disjointed pseudo labyrinths of FF13-2.

    I don’t care if FF15 will be like the old games or not, I was never a fan of FF because the games were similar, in fact, that’s why I hate Dragon Quest (only liked 3 and 8) and Pokemon (only liked the original red/blue). I like FF because they dared to change but I don’t like the direction that recent games are taking because they are going the lazy route. Compare FF13 and FF13-2 design wise to the old games, it simply isn’t the same. They only got smaller with each iteration instead of bigger and more epic. And not to mention that their story-telling has only become worse… Irrelevant main characters and boring story in FF12 and the over the top melodrama with half of its content and lore hidden on Data Logs in the menu on FF13. FF right now is nothing but a shadow of its former self.

    Anyway, back to keep playing Suikoden 3, now that’s a series peoplee should give a chance because at least from the ones I’ve played (1, 2 and now 3) they are fantastic games.

    • foureyes oni

      well you sell FF15 pretty well but off the trailers so far i don’t have this desire to explore its world. maybe its like i was reading in another article they just didn’t like the real world mixed up in their fantasy.

  • ProbablyNotButHey

    Guiseppe Nelva, you have just fanboy’d the hardest fanboy article I have ever read. You’re raging about an article which is trying to say: “Final fantasy has lost all of the charm and spirit that made it ‘final fantasy’” – which is overwhelmingly correct. After 14 (and now 15, plus however many spinoffs) games, they have to change something somewhere, true, but they’re getting really far from the core of what people liked final fantasy for, and while it might not be ‘dead’, it’s on a pretty steep downward spiral.

    But you’re too much of an angry weeaboo to see that.

    • Giuseppe Nelva

      actually considering the slew of insults you just threw, you seem to be the one that’s angry :D

      Not pandering to your personal taste doesn’t mean having lost charm or spirit.

      That article says “final fantasy is dead”, and uses a breast size increase to justify it, which is an overwhelmingly ignorant thing to say. That’s all there’s to it.

      • ProbablyNotButHey

        I ain’t even mad tho

    • Nicholas Perry

      So, because the series isn’t trying new things in the way you like, or because it’s not like “Insert FF thing here” that it’s dead and turrible?

      GTFO dude, people like you are exactly what is wrong with this fanbase.

      FFXIV 1.0 was one of the FEW actual problems the series has had over the years.

      Oh I guess you forgot about FFV legend of the crystals, final fantasy unlimited, Final Fantasy IIj, Mystic Quest, FFV(as hailed by many as turrible), VII(hailed as FFVI fans as turrible and worst game evar)

      • ProbablyNotButHey

        I mean, consider how desperately hard square has been trying to sell Lightning as a character. She’s boring, the game she originated from was far from perfect, and yet we have TWO sequels? At the press conference where they announced lightning returns, they said “We’ll be returning to a fan favorite of the final fantasy series…” and everyone held their breath, anticipating them saying “cloud” or some prominent character, and they revealed lightning, to lots of confused murmurs.

        Now they’ve increased her cleavage (why? why bother?), stuck her into FF14: realm reborn, and basically sexualized her entire character, when that wasn’t what she originated as. Why are they changing her? Why are they banking on her so hard? It’s like the team behind Dead or Alive is giving Squaresoft advice. They’re straying too far from what people fell in love with. 15 looks more “final fantasy” appropriate.

        Frankly I’d love to see a revamp of FF6 or FF8 any day. Neither of which had character image struggles as an element to even consider. Just good old spell flourish, action, and story.

        • ProbablyNotButHey

          And mystic quest is a non-numbered snes game that didn’t even begin as a final fantasy game, and had a sweet ass soundtrack for what it’s worth.

          • ProbablyNotButHey

            T-T-T-TRIPLE REPLY: FF13 had “crazy chocobo” in it’s soundtrack. Tell me that’s not a fallacy. (haa.. fal-cie.)

  • Levi Elwood Myers

    Dualshockers: one of the only sites that likes, enjoys, and defends videogames instead of attacking them.

    Stay gold.

    • Giuseppe Nelva

      That’s the whole point, isn’t it?

      • ProbablyNotButHey

        Don’t call yourself a journalist. You pretend to be one.

        • Giuseppe Nelva

          Of course mate, of course. :D

          • Carlo

            Can I get a photo with you dear Queen XD

          • Giuseppe Nelva

            Sure, bit no touching :D

      • Kevin Vu

        i disagree…their not doing it to feel smart, they do it because they see things to the consumer side, rather than the fanside. thier the voice of the masses. you have no idea how controversial XIII really is, and how much it affected long-term fans.

        • Matt Andre

          Affected long-term fans.. Ha.. Hahahaha.. HAHAHAHAHA-no. SquareEnix doesn’t cater to your very specific interests every single game. Some are not going to be designed for you. Simple as that. No one is forcing you to play them, but don’t even *dare* insult anyone that actually does enjoy it when you don’t. You just look self-entitled, and quite frankly, moronic.

    • Kamille

      yeah, let’s all unite in positiveness to sink our favorite franchises into mediocrity.

      • Giuseppe Nelva

        Utter negativity made of unbacked blanket statements, misleading data and personal myopic bias sure won’t help them improve.

        • Mildra

          Certainly didn’t help my relations with the OSR and Paizo crowds.

  • Mildra

    13 years ago, I heard similar proclamations about Dungeons and Dragons 3rd edition beiing ‘dead’, with people lambasting everything from the layout (tiny text and rampant use of brown), the “dungeonpunk” art style, to the increased healing, universal skill list, feats, and the idea that characters should be balanced at any given level rather than across a campaign (It was still a mess, but you didn’t arbitrarily stop development as an elf anymore). more than once I heard people claiming that WotC was turning D&D into Diablo. when 4th edition came out in 2008, the complaints came back again, this time with an extra layer of classlessness by invoking Gary Gygax’s recent passing, and the famous WoW accusation.

    Just sayin’

    But there is one similarity that is worth pointing out, the idea of a broken continuity. In D&D it was that there was a constant continuity and 4e broke it (it didn’t). Here it’s the idea that there was a similar arbitrary “feel” that was broken by whichever FF didn’t appeal to their nostalgic ideal of what the franchise should be anymore.

    but let’s be real here, “lost it’s charm” is just a cover for “not done in the way approved and stamped by ME”.

    • Giuseppe Nelva

      Exactly. People confuse their personal taste with an absolute assessment of quality, which is of course fallacious.

      Of course there are those that don’t like the gameplay, the story or any actual relevant element, and that’s fair.

      Then there are those that hate on the fact that Lightning got a slightly more capacious bra. And that’s ludicrous.

      • Nicholas Perry

        “People confuse their personal taste with an absolute assessment of quality, which is of course fallacious.”

        Damn right.

        And with the legions of millions of FF fans that are blinded by nostalgia, ignorance and the current “popular” WRPGs they some how believe that FF was something that it was not or they go in completely un empathetic of characters (People called XIII characters too “Whiny” seriously? What would you do in their situation?) Or expect it somehow be like “insert FF here” when the series entire foundation is about reinventing itself and trying new things.

        This isn’t Dragon Quest where you can get away with doing the same thing over and over and being nearly entirely Formulaic(Which there is nothing wrong with when it works)

      • Kamille

        wow, you guys are delusional! But what can you expect from a bunch of FF fanboys evading reality… My god, this is almost like the Sony fanboys on N4G.

        • Giuseppe Nelva

          The only “reality” is that the series has millions of fans all over the world and three games in development, at least two of which look definitely good so far.

          Looks like you’re evading it.

  • aozaki

    too much lightning is getting boring. we need to see more of that girl from FFXV.

    • zackfair345

      which girl? Stella (blonde hair) or the new girl in black hair that was on the E3 trailer

      • aozaki

        Stella

        • zackfair345

          ah okay. I doubt that we will someday like next year just before it’s release date even though we have to wait long

  • CecilsDarkSide

    The 3 last titles, which were the “internetz most hated” of all the titles, XII, XIII and XIII-2 sold 5.2 million, 4.95 million and 2.2 million copies world wide. there will always be millions of FF fans who flock to the game, who love the recurring themes and monsters, and appreciate a different take on the battle system each time. but then, as with any series, there are the haters. and they will scream the loudest about the death of a franchise that can still sell almost 5 million copies on a game everyone “hates” while those of us who love the seires are too busy replaying old titles, reading about upcoming ones, and preparing our real world lives for the hit they will take upon the release of ARR, FFX/X-2 HD and Lightning Returns all in the next 6 months or so .

    keep reporting with the sensible gamer in mind Guiseppe, we love you for it. There’s enough sites out there that report for hits and clicks, which has lead me to take my viewing elsewhere. Meaning here. Dual Shockers is my go to site for all things FF (love all your 1.0 recaps, helped me prepare for ARR) and RPG in general.

    • Giuseppe Nelva

      If I keep reporting with the sensible gamer in mind, maybe people will learn to spell my name correctly in the future :P

      I kid, I kid, *everyone* spells it that way, don’t worry :P

      • Mildra

        Believe me when I say you’re not the only one.

        On the bright side, you could’ve been named Mientkiewicz

        • Giuseppe Nelva

          Oh, I believe you :D

      • Krysanthia

        Pfft, not everyone…

        • Giuseppe Nelva

          You’re right. Gotta give credit where due.

          I should have said 99%. yes, I keep stats on it :P

      • CecilsDarkSide

        I know about “i” before “e” but I always forget “i” before “u”. Sorry about that. It will be noted for future posts. ;)

        • Giuseppe Nelva

          haha don’t worry :D It’s become sort of a running joke anyway :D

    • Carlo

      People will always have something to complain about at the end of the day they will still buy the game. I’m quite surprised at those numbers but I don’t expect LR to sell more than 13-2 sadly. My logic is less people will buy it because you don’t just pick up a series at the end right? So if you didn’t get 13-2 you most likely wont get LR. Everything else completely agree. I go more here lately due to the sensible articles and not just click baits

    • Kevin Vu

      selling “1 million” in one region is pretty good. but 2.2 worldwide is bad.

      2.2 loyal fans of XIII came back from the 4.95 million. that’s a big difference. and then theres XIII fans hating on the sequels too and having less hope for LR.

      i love FF, but i don’t love it unconditionally. and thats the problem, many haters are coming from the series. and part of the problem is that FF tends to decide to change their audience. XIII was not made for new and old fans, it was made for new. and if they got any old ff fans liking it, then that would be bonus.

      • Matt Andre

        Compare that to Mass Effect. Go on, I dare you. Worldwide sales, Final Fantasy XIII (and most of XIII-2) sold more copies that Mass Effect 1 & 2 combined (and almost all of 3 as well!) Clearly there’s just some butthurt self-entitled Westerners…

        • Austin McDowell

          Shut up idiot. Lightning Returns (to Gamestop) only sold at least 277k in Japan. Why don’t compare it’s obvious decline?

  • Chris Nunez

    Well thanks to the “dead Final Fantasy”, I can see this website alive and well :) Great write up and those last words is something i have been feeling for a long time. For as many people who love Final Fantasy, there are just as many people hating for the sake of hating and calling out those who love it lol

  • Jessenia Lopez

    Final fantasy Sucks

  • orangpelupa

    final fantasy 13 is dead. Hi FF 15, where are you? O_o

    • Nicholas Perry

      It’s OK not to like FFXIII. But if you liked X for example, there is literally 0 reason why you shouldn’t enjoy it. Because XIII really is just an evolution of X in it’s linearity.

      I can’t wait to see XHD come out and everyone is like “OMG back when FF was gud!” or “So good!” all the while blatantly ignoring how extremely linear the game is. Just as much if not more so than X.

      • orangpelupa

        linearity are not bad.

        its the way they presented it on FF13 thats bad.

        see The Last of Us from ND.That game are SUPER linear. But sold super well :D

        their presentation are awesome. The story also really nice.

        And please Square,
        stops using weird word for your story.
        fal cie, lu ciel, crystal this crystal that.

        i understand that every FF series have their own weird jargon. But the jargon on FF13 series are too much.

        i miss the time where Sin = bad guys.

        btw Kingdom Hearts Series also have a lot of Jargon, but they choose the word well. Still common english word.

        not lu ciel, fal ciel, nova fabulous crystalium.

        • Mildra

          I fail to see the problem with taking Latin as an inspiration (or in the case of the Garlean Empire in 14, rome), given the variety of mythological references in the series thus far.

    • zackfair345

      ffxv is coming next year on ps4 and Xbox one. I can hardly wait for it :D

  • William Trengove

    I’ve lost count of how many sites like Kotaku love to spew how ‘Final Fantasy is Dead’ when they really just want to whine and complain about how they want new experiences and cringe whenever something different comes along.

    • orangpelupa

      and every FF series are different game

      except FF13 132 133

    • CecilsDarkSide

      i dunno i always felt Jason Schrier from Kotaku was pretty pro-FF…thats not to say every journalist on the site is, but i read anything and everything he writes about rpgs/jrpgs and he always seemed to love the series, even current entries.

      • Nicholas Perry

        One of the guys there at Kotaku actually made an article how they said “Final fantasy has never been open world/non linear.”

        Which is absolute truth. The only games that are even NEAR open world or non-linear are some of the most contested games in the series (X-2, XII, Xiii-2)

        • Mildra

          I never understood the necessity of open world. That’s not to say I don’t like it, but it bugs me that its treated as a superior approach (i.e. why does an rpg NEED open-world). To me its like saying that running a hexcrawl is somehow a better roleplaying experience than running an adventure package.

          • Austin McDowell

            Simple. Because you can do so much more with an open-world. Duh.

      • Matt Andre

        I can assure you it *isn’t* Jason Schreier. He has been nothing but a bitter “retro” fanboy who hates anything different/recent simply because it isn’t the older thing. Folks like that need to grow the hell up and move on. The series has to progress and move onto different things. Do the same thing over and over is not original. And I also seem to recall plenty of people saying “Final Fantasy is all the same, it never changes”. Well, FFXIII changed, and apparently folks didn’t like change.

        The simple conclusion is that the Final Fantasy fanbase does not know what the Final Fantasy fanbase wants.

  • MrSebyos .

    Excellent article. For me it’s more than defending a great franchise. You are defending good gaming journalism in an era marked by questionable journalism work not just in quality, but also in integrity.

  • Nicholas Perry

    Damn right this article!

    You are so right, i’m so sick of all the blinding ignorance. People some how believing that Square and old Final Fantasy was something that it WAS NOT. And that it was somehow some patron saint. WHEN IT WAS NOT.

    It will take a whole damn lot to stop me from loving Final Fantasy. I’ve yet NOT to enjoy a main entry title (IIIj is one in particular that I don’t enjoy as much. but I still do enjoy it. XII I had to take a step back and approach it in a different way to start to truly love it when it came out)

    • Mildra

      Agreed. The only ones I did not enjoy were 1 and 3, but that is primarily due to my longstanding hatred of vancian magic. Consequently this is why I have difficulty getting into suikoden (both cases call it MP, but it is D&D/Wizardry-style vancian systems to a T).

      • Nicholas Perry

        How do you feel about like Etrian Odyssey or Shin Megami Tensei?

        • Mildra

          I have not played any of the EO games and all of the Megaten games I *have* played (3, DDS, Devil Summoner, Persona 3&4) all use an MP system

    • Austin McDowell

      Buy “All the Bravest” then, now shut up.

  • Jorge Greenwood

    I agree with everything on this article, though is important to also recognize that Final Fantasy has dropped on popularity mainly because XIII wasn’t liked too much, people got annoyed with Versus XIII not releasing, and XIII recieving sequels that most people didn’t wanted, then there is XIV (the original) which was that bad that it’s having a “remake” just after it launched (or didn’t launch in some plattforms), so yes Final Fantasy is not dead but I believe it is in a delicate posicion amongst fans, I believe that the new XIV will sort things a bit, and It will be up to XV to reinvigorate the franchise at its fullest or let it die, since to most of the people who were annoyed with all the lightning saga, XV is the last chance for square to prove them they can make awesome games, and yes, there are people that like XIII but for example, XIII-2 didn’t managed to sell even a third of the copies that the original XIII did, and losing 3+ million consumers is not exactly “doing great”. XIII sold very well but mostly because it was the new FF for the new generation of consoles (at the time, that is), anyway, I just wanted to point out that even if it is not dead, it is in fact in a delicate position, so I can see how it could be dead if they keep ignoring fans, for example they are planning on XVs sequels when there is no certainty that the game will be good enough, I believe that if they’ve moved from XIII to XIV and XV people would have been less angry because they had really, nothing for them this whole generation, it all was lightning, if the same happened with noctis and ended up being disliked then it wouldn’t be wise to keep doing sequels of it, since you would left those 3+million that hated that particular entry, without nothing to look forward from your company

  • Perry Tanko

    I’ve never played Final Fantasy 11 and I doubt i’ll miss the FF14 grindfest either.

    • Giuseppe Nelva

      So you’re talking without knowing what you’re talking about I see.

      There’s nothing grindy about Final Fantasy XIV. From what was visible from the beta, the leveling curve is smooth as silk.

      • orangpelupa

        maybe he talks about the jaggies that grind his eyes?
        FF14 have horrible jagged edges

        • Giuseppe Nelva

          not really, it doesn’t. All you have to do is to activate Anti Aliasing via the video card menu, as it wasn’t active in the beta.

    • michael neau

      I think you basically showed how your intelligence with that comment. I dont play madden either because im not a baseball fan.

  • Sam Corbett

    They are just boobs aquas boobs jiggle slightly in birth by sleep and that game is rated E10+

    • zackfair345

      wouldn’t lightning returns final fantasy xiii be rated 10? I mean it’s not just aqua’s boobs that jiggle even lightning’s jiggle too

      • Sam Corbett

        no because their is still some suggestive themes more then this and their is also some language.

        • zackfair345

          ah I see now. language in lightning returns. well I’ll have to give it a try when it’s released

          • Sam Corbett

            Same here. but 2014 :( is a long wait im waiting for like so many games 2 professor laytons in 2014 kingdom hearts 3 and final fantasy 15 but kingdom hearts final mix is almost here :)

          • zackfair345

            yeah kingdom hearts final mix would be in the HD remix and I agree with you. 2014 is very long to wait and I wish kingdom hearts 3 and final fantasy xv would be here which is why I’m waiting for games like final fantasy xv, grand theft auto v, kingdom hearts 3, assassins creed iv and sonic lost world

          • Sam Corbett

            Im waiting for the ps4 version of assassins creed 4 and will gta V also be on ps4? I also herd that Tetsuya Nomura is splitting up ff 15 into episodes like kingdom hearts coded was I HOPE HE DOESN’T BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE TO WAIT LONGER for the chapters to be finished.

          • zackfair345

            yeah I’m also waiting for assassins creed 4 too and no gta5 won’t be heading on the ps4. it’s actually staying on ps3 and Xbox 360. Tetsuya Nomura did announce that he would make some series of ffxv. I doubt ffxv would be released first then he would make the series to ffxv

    • Mihel

      But BBS is made by Tetsuya Nomura, and as his fans already know, Nomura does nothing wrong ever.
      Tifa, Lulu and Aqua tits are OK because they were designed by Nomura.

      • Sam Corbett

        Lol Tifa tits are HUGE when ever she shows up in ff 7 dissidia and kh 2 im just staring at them like O.O

  • Caedes

    Here here, If this is the calliber of this sights review, youve jsut got yourself another reader. The post that this artical is discussing is so wrong its hard to even laugh at, the auther seems to honestly belive his own ramblings :/ its quite sad really.

    I started playing FF at VII and as i was reading the http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/07/final-fantasy-is-dead/

    article i listed 12 things from VII to XII that are inline or worse than this :/.
    you only have to look at Lani from ffIX.

  • focusblade

    I do agree that “graphics” get better and it make the game more enjoyable but i like my FF stories to be memorable as well. I think we can all agree that there is a general lack in creativeness and immersion in the newer games. A lot of this is just my opinion but there was once a time where these games made me really connect to the main character (Squall saving Rinoa in space, Tidus and Yuna kiss, Cloud finds out who he really is, the death of Aeris, and much more!). Like i said, it may just be me but i want a game that makes me remember the reason i fell in love with final fantasy in the first place….. not enhanced “graphics”.

    • Mildra

      doesn’t it need to be in your ‘memory’ for it to be ‘memorable’? Either way, it’s a bit of an emotional plea at best and a misnomer at worst.

  • Jack Ashley Benn

    Well, I agree about XV draws a lot of attention – I also agree that the game is not dead. But it’s been pretty disappointing since XII, and we’ve been waiting for too long for a good game. Despite XIII is the worst FF ever, FF is not dead:

    However, I think they are so ridiculous to increase her boob size – they are adding so much sex, and you can’t compare the FFVI or FFVIII characters with Vanille and Lightning – the camera is chasing their crotch the entire time! :S

  • PrinceHeir

    lol this Kohler guy is pretty clueless and dumb.

    glad he got owned pretty quickly ^^

    • kevin vu

      not really. its just strawman method to make it look like he’s dumb.

  • Kevin Vu

    I personally don’t agree with how this article goes down. you defend not the core details, but treat it all as strawman debate. You kept finding every small bit and saying “well what about this”.
    ye sex sells, but its completely different to consider Lightning the same as those. Sexualizing the very character they sought out to be different from the common female archetype in japan.

    Fans have been disappointed too, but again still some hold hope, others don’t. It’s hard to see this objectively, when one thinking its dead, can be at multiple perspectives. financially, yes its alive, but their also in dept and they even go out of their way to blame eidos.

    although i agree its far from dead, it has been criticized negatively by fans and independent reviewers. then again dualshockers is the only site that likes XIII so openly. so it’s hard to be objective about it when there’s at least 50% of FF fans hating it and Dual Shockers saying “yeah we know, we don’t care”. I mean, i find this site if it has “anything at all” to offer, it passes the satisfactory mark. and ff13 barely did it gameplay wise and continues to imporve on that. but the trilogy itself is just a mediocore tale

    If other people criticize the series and state its dead, (although i disagree personally) its for good reason. granted most of the dead speech is due to the fact that we been getting nothing but the most controversial games such as FFXIII, we have not been able to experience type-0, we’re still waiting on XV. XIV is out but he has a point on pay-to-play. yes, FF are open to MMOs, but not all of their fans. and profit shouldn’t be a reason for why MMOs are great. You don’t come off as a consumer, just a fanboy.

  • Ark RPG

    Dude… Between lots of crap everywhere said by “fans” without personality who just repeat things that ignorant sites like kotaku or IGN puke by here and there, I saw this article, impressive words, you are full of reason. Congratulations, people like you make me proud to be a gamer.

  • Perry Tanko

    Final Fantasy has become an entirely over-rated series in every sense of the term. I enjoy Dragon Quest and the Persona/SMT games much, much better. speaking of Atlus, Nintendo should have bought them and make as many new Rpgs as possible. I LOVE ATLUS!

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