News, Platforms, PS4, Xbox One

AMD Ready to Provide Mantle Support for PS4 and Xbox One; Could Push Performance of Both Further

by on March 28, 2014 6:45 PM 54

There has been a lot of discussion lately on the possibility of AMD’s Mantle to be used to improve the performance of PS4 and Xbox One like it did for certain games on PCs using AMD video cards, and today AMD Senior Director of Global Software Alliances Neal Robison explained that something can indeed be done during the Q&A Session of a press conference held in Tokyo.

According to the report by PC Watch Robison mentioned that consoles have a fixed architecture unlike PCs, but can be extended via software. Mantle can be used for both sides (PS4 and Xbox One), but its use will depend on Sony and Microsoft. Robison continued by saying that for now everything is at a potential level, but the performance of the two consoles could be raised one step further if it’ll be realized.

The report by 4Gamer includes further details, mentioning that AMD is ready to provide Mantle support for PS4 and Xbox one, but again its use will be at the discretion of Microsoft and Sony Computer Entertainment. In addition to this game developers could also use the Mantle API as a foundation for their games and have some of its benefits work across PC, PS4 and Xbox One since both consoles are based on an AMD APU. Mantle can be used transversely on all three platforms, especially with CryEngine and Frostbite that have the API included at the engine level.

We reached out to AMD requesting further details on this, and we’ll update if we’ll receive new information. That said, it’ll definitely be interesting to see how far AMD will manage to push Mantle and if console manufacturers will decide to adopt its features.

Update: we received an official statement from AMD in response to our inquiry, confirming that AMD is ready to share Mantle with its console partners if they express the will to use it:

Neal talked about the fact that Mantle is intended for use on Radeon graphics in a PC.  However, we said that Mantle was designed from the beginning to be extensible to other platforms, as well.  AMD stands ready to share the technology with our [console] partners should they choose to want it.

Basically, the ball is in Sony and Microsoft’s field. We’ll have to see if they’ll decide to run to the goal with it.

Join the Discussion

  • PCS4-Box U

    Good buy DX12, hello Mantle!

    • Mike C

      its bye

      • josh

        Try bye

        • Mike C

          I put bye

          • josh

            yea after you edit it you put it.

          • Mike C

            yeah, lol, voice typing doesn’t understand I try to say bye instead of by

          • PCS4-Box U

            Done!

          • 2223

            Are you seriously arguing about bye and by??? Let him/her edit a million times if he/she wants, why in God’s name does it even matter.

      • PCS4-Box U

        i put bye. :-)

  • Jecht_Sin

    Read: since the consoles already have their straight to the HW APIs and SDKs it might not really be beneficial in terms of performances for the consoles, but it would be nice if it was going to be adopted because it will make easier to port the games written for Mantle between the different platforms, kicking in the butt Nvidia.

    Not that I would complain, I developed already a liking for AMD. :)

    • Xtreme Derp

      Easier porting to/from PC (assuming AMD cards are used), less
      opportunity for low level optimization. Could be an interesting choice
      for indies.

      • Jecht_Sin

        Well, yeah.. But DX will be used no matter what for Nvidia HW. Which makes the ports to Xbox more straightforward. My point was that it was AMD itself stating that the consoles don’t need Mantle, since they already have their own low level APIs, written specifically for their HW.

        As with DX12 Mantle is mostly a PC thing. I am not sure either many developers will go through the trouble of using two different APIs for the PC games. Unless there is a DX compatibility layer, which I don’t know, I am not really skilled in CGI.

    • PCS4-Box U

      I have had nothing but bad experiences with AMD unfortunately. My PC initially had (2) 7750s that ran in crossfire and it was a NIGHTMARE for it being my first real gaming rig. My rig would BSOD every time I tried to update AMD drivers. I initially thought it was crossfire causing the issue but same problem even after remocing the 2nd card.
      I finally got fed up and switched to Evga 660ti sc, never had another issue.
      Maybe it was just the GPUs? Idk but either way, i can’t ever recommend AMD again.

      • shinitaru

        I’ve had problems with AMD cards too, but I admit that it’s been a while since I bought one.

        • PCS4-Box U

          I was really freaked out at the time… it was my first venture into the scary world of PC gaming too. I tried everything i could to fix it too, removed previous driver, installed in safe mode, removed 2nd card… it was a big deal and all the while, I had my wife bitching and giving me grief that i spent 1200.00 on a broken junk PC and how it was a stupid idea and on and on and on…
          Coincidentally, she went missing shortly thereafter… The police suspected foul play but they were never able to find a body…. and they never will. Ha… Ha HA WUHAHAHAHAAA!
          (sorry, that got a little out of control there)

          • Fersay Ferrera

            Pc gaming sucks. Amd sucks even more,my gtx 570 says hi. Lol

      • Michael Norris

        My first video card was an ATI 9500 I think… well it didn’t work for shit.So i bought a new Pc and a Nvidia 9600GT and never looked back.Nvidia has much better drivers which is why I buy em.

      • Jecht_Sin

        And there has been a time when OS X had big issues with Nvidia GPUs. I mean, bugs are always there. How is the situation now?

        • PCS4-Box U

          All problems resolved as soon as I plugged in the 660ti and removed AMD drivers. Nvidia havent issues on OS X isn’t that surprising though, there was a time when Apple refused to allow 3rd party parts in their machines. They’ve opened up a little in the last decade but it wasn’t always that way… Now, people are able to make “franken-tosh’s” using all off the shelf PC parts and just installing the OS.

  • Nicholas Perry

    Probably could help in CPU bound scenariors like in MP games (Like BF4 for example whoms framerate struggles in MP. Which is unacceptable)

    • Adam Sims

      and titanfall. not sure how much of that is optimisation though as it’s hardly the most graphics intensive. If they can patch out some of the perfomance issues it will be a dream. The gameplay is sick but when the frame rate drops to single digits it takes you out the experience

  • ManagedCorn

    I’ve read Sony’s API has some similarities to Mantle, but we’ll wait and see.

    • PCS4-Box U

      Pretty sure Sony uses a modified version of OpenGL at the moment but my understanding is that other APIs could be used if desired.. someone feel free to correct me if i’m wrong, i won’t pretend to be a programmer/coder.

  • Bankai

    After the fuss that was made about DX12, I doubt Microsoft would be on board with this. Unless the 2 can coexist without issue, which they should be able to.

  • Parhelion88

    It COULD be benefitial for cross-platform games, since they usually use multi-platform frameworks, which are very high-level.

    First party games, usually have better optimization and go closer to the metal, and using this low level tools, it far surpasses mantle’s performance (but it does need more work)

  • Dikan45

    sounds good

  • http://www.techreviewshop.com/ JP

    Stop trying to make Mantle happen!

    • PCS4-Box U

      Whats your quarrel with Mantle? I’ve never heard anything but good about it.

  • MrZweistein

    DX12: Panic mode

    • cozomel

      I think you’re right, this is AMD’s way of trying to make Mantle more relevant. Cuz the truth is that neither PS4 or X1 need Mantle, cuz they both already have low level API’s. So whats the point of Mantle on them?

      • Xtreme Derp

        Easier porting between PC and console, assuming the PC is running an AMD card.

        • MrZweistein

          But if Devs using DX12 the ports are easy anyway because the major manufacturers are supported. Mantle is restricted on AMD GPUs. What do you think devs will program on?

          • Arran McDonald

            Dont forget AMD are trying to get mantle built in to the next OpenGL and if that’s the case then that’s bad luck for DX12 as OpenGL runs on way more things than DirectX does

          • MrZweistein

            Did you see the header? Mantle support for BOTH platforms. No run away …

  • Rickowned

    Hmmm if Playstation added mantle support would it make games on the FB3 engine run even better thus allowing BF4 to be 1080p as well as other games on it?

  • Stranger On The Road

    Microsoft wont allow Mantle on the XB1 since they have an ego and their pride that won’t let them admit that another API could be better, DX12 will be the API for XB1. That being said, they might opt to implement similar functionality to that of Mantle in DX12.x. One of the things that DX12 is suppose to bring is support for ‘extensions’; which OpenGL has enjoyed for a long time. Those extensions could yield a greater improvement in performance to what DX12 provide by default.

    As for Sony, while it is open to using an alternative API, I honestly don’t see why they would dump OpenGL for Mantle. For the sake of cross platform development? They already have this with OpenGL! Arguably OpenGL can be found on even more platforms than DX12 or Mantle; making OpenGL the right choice for people who really wish to have cross platform development. And this without including the maturity of the OpenGL API in comparison to the very new Mantle that is yet to prove itself.

    As for performance, OpenGL is a high performance API with a low overhead; to my knowledge [and Google-fu] a comparison between OpenGL and Mantle haven’t been done. And the few that did do it where using different cards and platforms for the comparison to be of use [although, OpenGL did win them].

    tl;dr: Sony might be open to switching to Mantle if it can prove itself against OpenGL; Microsoft won’t do that but will instead improve DX12.x.

    • cozomel

      You win the smartest comment award. You hit to nail on the head, right on.

  • Alrightylol

    Oh come on, Playstation allready got its own low lvl api, they dont need Mantle.

    • cozomel

      Exactly

  • Aria68

    i think this is bullshit, i twiited to one of Frostbite member and developer of Battlefield, he told me that, PS4 don’t need mantle, as devs already have access to low level, mantle was meant to be for PCs so they can have that kind of low level access similar in PS4. So i call this non sense, Neither MS will throw away their DX nor SONY will throw away their Open GL … Both PS4/X1 API has already have access to low level unlike PC.

    • Stranger On The Road

      The argument is that this low level API would be on all 3 platforms, making the life of the developer that targets all 3 platforms a lot easier. Although the argument against it is: OpenGL supports even more platforms and it already supports extensions that would give it low level access.

      • Arran McDonald

        AMD are trying to get mantle built in to OpenGL http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTc2Mzc

        • Stranger On The Road

          That is why I love AMD, they do share their things, and their technology (such as TressFX) are designed to be used with existing technologies instead of being warped in a proprietary API that no one else can use.

          Heck, my MSc’s dissertation would be using their APU :-)

    • cozomel

      Bingo!

  • HustyparmenCZ

    Mantle = + 10 – 15fps

  • :D

    ehm xbox one haven’t directx ?

  • cozomel

    What the f*ck is the point? The PS4 and X1 already have a low level “down to the metal” API, unless the point is to just have another APi that’ll yield you better performance than DX11 and make it easier to port between PC and PS4/X1. Unless AMD is doing a better job of optimizing thei API than either Sony or MS. But i doubt. And even the much ballyhooed DX12 is just based on X1′s DX11 low level access. But dumb hopeful fanboys dont realize this, cuz they’re dumb. But whatever. I guess “more ” choices is better, unless like i said , it turns out Mantle is better than Sony’s and MS’s API.

    • Xtreme Derp

      Just wait for MS to turn on the secret sauce chips in the Xbox, you’ll be sorry!

  • tmservo

    More interested in amd providing driver or firmware updates to enable 3d bluray support for both xb1 and ps4.

  • Thomas Cai Jinzhan

    If Mantle is so good, why is Nvidia winning the mindshare game in PC gaming? Practically every hardcore PC gamer i knew uses Nvidia chips……I think AMD’s chip is in both Console is due to Nvidia wanting a higher price per chip and also Nvidia concentrating their resources on mobile chips…..add in to AMD’s own financial problem and it’s not reasonable to deduce that AMD will be more than willing to discount their chips to cut a deal with both Sony and MS to get into their console (to earn some much needed revenue)…

    • Jecht_Sin

      Steam HW Survey:
      http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

      - Nvidia: 52.38%
      - AMD/ATI: 31.03%

      Also there is only one game right now using Mantle; BF4. I am not sure with which results. The Mantle patch for Thief is under work.

      • ( )

        Actually your are not quite right.

        “Released

        Battlefield 4 – (Developed by DICE/Frostbite Team)

        Thief – (Developed by Eidos), no Mantle yet

        Need for Speed Rivals — (Developed by Ghost Games), no Mantle yet

        Unreleased

        Star Citizen – (Developed by Cloud Imperium Games, Behaviour Interactive)

        Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare –(Developed by PopCap Games)

        Sniper Elite 3 – (Developed by Rebellion)

        Dragon Age: Inquisition – (Developed by BioWare/Frostbite Team)

        Havana (codename) – (Developed by Visceral Games/Frostbite Team)

        Mars (codename) – (Developed by Mohawk Games/Oxide Games)

        Mass Effect (untitled) – (Developed by BioWare/Frostbite Team)

        Mirror’s Edge 2 – (Developed by DICE/Frostbite Team)

        Star Control – (Developed by Stardock/Oxide Games)

        Star Wars: Battlefront — (Developed by DICE/Frostbite Team)

        Unannounced title — (Developed by Oxide Games)

        As a Battlefield fan I immediately noticed Havana, which is developed by Visceral Games. The rumor has it that this developer is preparing the new police themed Battlefield game. So is this the Battlefield 5?

        The rest is pretty self explanatory. Mars is a new game developed by people behind Civilization. I don’t think it would actually be called Civilization, but the game could be very similar.

        I’m not really sure what is Mass Effect is doing on this list, because Mass Effect 3 was supposed to be the last game in the series. Is this a new game or just old title being updated – I’m not sure.

        I hope this lists gives you a small heads up of what is coming with Mantle this, or early next year.”

        http://videocardz.com/49777/list-upcoming-games-support-mantle-api

        It also took NVidia a year to become compatible with DirectX 11 after Microsoft released it.

    • ( )

      “If Mantle is so good….”
      Well I guess you don’t know that Mantle is BRAND NEW. And AMD is gaining market share. Besides most gamers purchase oem boxes that have Intel inside. They do not make the choice to buy NVidia or Radeon. Intel makes that choice for them. However when they upgrade they often buy Radeon.
      Apple also bought Radeon and dumped NVidia. In fact AMD ate NVidia’s lunch before Christmas when it released Radeon 280 at the sub $400 price point.
      Your observation may have been true last year, but no longer. Make no doubt about it though, NVidia will continue to have the lions share of the market. Not because they are better but because Intel silicon is paired with NVidia silicon at the OEM level. Evidently there are price advantages to be had if AMD silicon is not used.

  • Chade Fallstar

    MS would NEVER support Mantle on XB1, give support to an API which is a direct threat to DirectXs stranglehold on PC gaming? No Way. Besides, both PS4 and XB1 already have low level APIs, Mantle would offer no benefit in terms of performance and it would mean Sony and MS basically throwing out all the R&D and money they’ve spent on their own software environments.

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